I believe orcas should be at the top of the list in terms of being granted human level species rights. They should be removed from tanks ASAP and placed in sanctuaries, such as the one being built in Nova Scotia.
I also have a suspicion that orca intelligence possibly matches that of humans.
Assuming most animals experience similar emotions in much the same way as humans, why is it okay to inflict pain and suffering only on the less intelligent animals, but not the more intelligent ones?
Does harming them make you uncomfortable because you have an easier time relating to them? Or is it because they are possibly intelligent enough to blame humans for what we've been doing to them, and that makes you uncomfortable?
Either way, intelligence can't be bar to use, because that argument would exclude mentally retarded humans from enjoying human rights as well.
That may sound harsh, but I strongly believe humanity should stop and think on the why for a moment.
Are we doing something because it is right, because the alternative makes us feel bad, or because doing so will make us look better? The first motivation is altruistic, the other is egoistic, and the last egotistic. Do all three align in this case? What about other examples?
I imagine even reflecting on one's own motivations will be uncomfortable to some. It certainly was to me.
Edit: Also I don't believe any of these motivations are inherently bad, but often one is dishonest about which one it really is.
Your questions address or imply things I didn’t say, and you’re making a lot of assumptions.
I don’t really feel like debating in this manner, so all I will say is that I have a problem with any animal being mentally, physically, or emotionally abused, neglected, etc. by humans, regardless of intelligence.
> why is it okay to inflict pain and suffering only on the less intelligent animals?
I don't think anyone argues that it's okay to inflict pain and suffering on animals. We do inflict pain and suffering on factory-farmed animals, but most people oppose it (at least in a half-assed verbal manner; people say they don't like it but still buy products made in that way, in the same way people say they care about slavery and racism and inequality and exploitation of the third world but don't change their consumer behaviour to avoid supporting those things.)
That's because consumers don't have any power to stop it. I wish people would stop with the whole "if only people cared enough to vote with their wallet". We've got hundreds of years of evidence that it does not work. If you want change that doesn't benefit corporations, you've got to do it through the government.
I agree government is the most efficient way (at least a non-corrupted one), but people do have a choice and they do vote with their wallet, I see it every time I do shopping.
Anytime they opt for cheap chicken meat instead of at least free range one, any time they buy cheap crappy farmed salmon instead of wild catched one, they say loud and clear they just couldn't care less. People that buy cheap fruits instead of BIO ones. And so on.
Stop acting like mankind is a bunch of saints oppressed by evil corporations, we are often lazy and oblivious when it suits us and can come up with endless stream of excuses for why so.
When salaries haven't kept up with inflation for something like 30 years, it's perfectly understandable for people to buy the cheaper option. For many families it's not really about choice, but survival.
In fact buying everything bio/organic, free-range, artisanal, etc is sometimes just used for wealth-signalling.
It doesn't work. A few people choosing to go vegetarian or vegan changes nothing. Something like 80% of people who try it revert to meat within a year. It's the same with people choosing to stop driving. If you try it you'll just notice nobody else gives a shit and you're making this huge sacrifice while they continue to have fun. Anything like this can only work if we all do it together.
This wasn't about "why dont' you just", the entire thread you're replying to was about whether or not people have a choice and can vote with their wallets.
I argue they do.
> It's the same with people choosing to stop driving.
Depends on where you live. If there is good public transport infrastructure, more people may decide not to drive.
I don't even own a car, and not because of some environmental reasoning, but because it's more of a hassle than it's worth. I fully understand that this is not possible if ones lives in the US however.
So instead of prying people from their cars, the solution is probably to have good alternatives.
However not every indulgence has good alternatives.
And lastly, it's not the same. Your comparison is completely disingenuous. You may need a car. It is a utility. But you don't need meat.
> If you try it you'll just notice nobody else gives a shit and you're making this huge sacrifice while they continue to have fun.
If it is your stated belief that it is wrong to eat certain meat, and you do so anyways, you're just a massive hyprocrite. What others are doing doesn't even factor into it. Justifying your own behavior with what someone else is doing is just whataboutism.
> I also have a suspicion that orca intelligence possibly matches that of humans.
I thought similar things after watching the documentary Blackfish (which is excellent.) Some of the orca behaviour documented in that film - in captivity and in the wild - is remarkably intelligent; some of the most obviously-intelligent behaviour I've seen from any non-human animal.
I would argue that the accessibility of seeing these magnificent creatures in a SeaWorld or equivalent has done a lot to help the environment by educating people and making them familiar with something precious. Children who visit zoos and aquariums cherish the animal kingdom and grow up supporting environmental protections. Yes it is terrible for the affected orcas given how social they are - but I am not sure I agree the whole practice is a net negative.
I would ask that you read the following articles and still see if you feel the same way. The southern resident orcas were decimated by the attack and capture of many orcas in the 70s, and the effects are still present today. Lolita, the last remaining orca from that capture is still alive, trapped in a concrete prison barely the size of a public pool. She’s been alone in that tank for decades. Her last tank partner committed suicide by repeatedly ramming his head into the side of the tank, causing a brain hemorrhage.
You seem to be advocating that torture of the few could help the many, but that has not been the case. The southern resident orcas, those that primarily seeded entertainment orcas in the U.S., are potentially nearing extinction.
SRKs are a special case but their recent low figures and troubles with calves seem mostly unrelated to those past captures and more related to issues like the lack of food, the use of sonar (nearby naval bases), boat noise, runoff from Seattle, and other issues (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_resident_killer_wha...). I get that the past captures reduced their numbers, which increases the risk of this community of whales disappearing, but it seems the lack of subsequent growth/recovery is due to other factors.
Orcas as a whole (the species not specific pods) aren’t marked as endangered and number in the tens of thousands. The SRKs are endangered and that’s terrible but I would say the overall orca species and even other marine life benefit from greater awareness and consideration from people having been able to appreciate them directly in places like SeaWorld.
Orcas are matriarchal, have extremely close family units, and rely on the leadership of older orcas. Killing or capturing orcas that would now be older orcas, particularly females, has had huge effects on the southern resident population.
I don’t know because I don’t think they’ve really been tried. The sanctuary in Nova Scotia, to my understanding, is huge and is supposed to help rehabilitate previously captive whales and house them forever. Captive whales are unlikely to survive out in the wild on their own (maybe, I don’t know), and so the project is to give them a natural home instead of being in concrete tanks.
I also have a suspicion that orca intelligence possibly matches that of humans.